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Hale Dwoskin Speaks with Marci Shimoff

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  • Sedona Training
    Here is a conversation between Hale and Marci, for those of you who'd like to read this transcript:

    Hale Dwoskin: Hi, I’m here with Marci Shimoff, my good friend and fellow Secret teacher and the author of some of the bestselling Chicken Soup for the Woman Soul book and also Happy For No Reason and Love for Not Reason. So esteemed author and good friend Marci Shimoff.

    Marci Shimoff: Thank you, I’d reverse that order, a good friend is more important to me than the esteemed author part.

    Hale Dwoskin: Yes, likewise here, and I mean you have to say that for the public.

    Marci Shimoff: Yeah, well I just want everyone to know how much I truly value our friendship and also your guidance, you’ve been really extraordinarily helpful to me all along the path of writing, especially these last two books Happy For No Reason and Love For No Reason, thank you.

    Hale Dwoskin: Well, it’s always been my pleasure. So today the topic we’re going to talk about is love and since you just wrote a book about that, I’ll let you start the conversation and share some of the things that you’ve been discovering as you research the book and everything else and some of your favourite insights from the book, by the way the book is called Love For No Reason and we’ll put a link to the book underneath this recording.

    Marci Shimoff: Well Hale when I finished Happy For No Reason I wondered what was next, I did some soul searching and I though “what do I want more than happiness?” And I had really in Happy For No Reason, I’d interviewed a hundred unconditionally happy people, people including you who are living in this inner state of peace and well being that didn’t depend on their circumstances and I applied a lot of what I’d learned and it was working. I was definitely feeling happier, but I thought “okay, what’s next? Is there anything next?” And the only thing that came to me that was more powerful than happiness was love. And I thought about the times in my life when I’ve been the most fulfilled and they were the times when I was feeling an openhearted sense of gratitude and love.

    And I thought of course what comes to mind is when you fall in love in a relationship and that never lasts, I thought “Okay, I don’t want the stuff that comes and goes, I want the experience that lasts, I want to know how is it that you, how can we live in live rather than fall in love.” And so I went and interviewed 150 love luminaries like you again, you were in that category as well and I really found that these people did not get to this state of love, this inner state of what I call Love For No Reason by luck that they got there through doing specific things and opening themselves in specific ways.

    And that to me is the most exciting thing there is, I think that it’s the reason we’re on the planet it’s what we’re for ultimately and it’s sort of the end of the conversation is love.

    Hale Dwoskin: It’s also the beginning of the conversation.

    Marci Shimoff: Yes, and the middle. It’s the whole conversation if you’re doing the conversation right.

    Hale Dwoskin: Yeah, in my experience love is our basic nature, it’s the glue that holds the universe together and to quote the Beatles “All there is, is love” and what’s wonderful about what you’re doing with this book is you’re helping people with all sorts of tools and techniques they can use to uncover their basic loving nature. Love is not something you get from the outside, it’s also is not something you get from the inside, it’s what you already are. And one of the things you’ve said in the very beginning which I really liked and she said “you realize the times you were is when you were feeling grateful and loving.”

    And Lester talked about that too Lester Levenson my mentor and the man who inspired the Sedona Method, as he examined his life as part of the process that led to the initial creation of the core tools that the Sedona Method is built around, as he realized that the times in his life that he was the happiest we’re not when he was being loved, but when he was loving and what he did is he went through his life and he turned all the places in his life where he was wanting love, to love itself and it was liberating. So anyway I’m going to let you share some of the other things that you.

    Marci Shimoff: Well, I love what you just said that it is our essence, there were three themes that came up consistently amongst all of these people that I interviewed and one of the themes, the very first theme is that love is who we are, that it’s our nature, it’s our essence and that our job in life is just to remove the blocks to experiencing that essence and there’s a beautiful Rumi quote that says “Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you’ve built against it.” And I have to confess that when I hear that statement “love is who we are” my eyes kind of roll a little bit.

    It’s sort of like, “okay yeah I’ve heard that, but so what does that really mean?” And I sat with that more and I really have gotten that more deeply rather than the cliché that it’s the essence of everything and that basically life is vibrating with that essence of love and when we’re not experiencing that it’s because of whatever barriers we’ve built to it and that for me is a much more hopeful kind of a position. Because if love is really our essence, it’s not something I have to create, it’s not something I have to go do, it’s just something that I need to be able to dissolve into. And I know that, another confession is that I don’t live this all the time but I think just having that paradigm has done a lot to open me more and more to the experience of it.

    I think just really deeply getting that paradigm that love is our essence it’s who we are, it’s what the universe is made of, just that, starts to shift our awareness and our experience of love. What do you think?

    Hale Dwoskin: No, I totally agree with that and I also love that Rumi quote because the second part of the quote is what the Sedona Method is all about, it’s seeing the barriers to love, even though they’re imaginary and in seeing them and welcoming them and letting them go, love just gets more and more self obvious to itself. And what’s wonderful is that it doesn’t take a lot of energy or effort because love – in my experience – is also the universal solvent, as you allow yourself to even just entertain the possibility that love is at your core, that you are love, the love that you are dissolve through all your imaginary obstacles, your imaginary blinders that’s preventing you from seeing that and it becomes more self obvious to itself.

    Marci Shimoff: So it’s just the power of love and the experience of love does some of the dissolving?

    Hale Dwoskin: Yes, actually we’re not the doers; we’re not the control centre if you know what I mean. The loving is the answer, being the I N G the ‘ing’ is what’s already happening, there’s really no lovee or lover, there’s just loving. And everything gets taken care, that the world is alive because of that, you and I are alive because of that and that sense of you separate from me dissolves into that because it’s just an illusion.

    Marci Shimoff: So I think where people get a little confused is when they hear loving, not in the context of what you’re talking about, but in general they think I have to do loving, I have to be loving to somebody, and what you’re saying it seems is that you be loved, it’s not doing a loving action necessarily is being love and out of that flows automatically the appropriate actions.

    Hale Dwoskin: Exactly, the being in another I N G, it’s something that just simply happens, it’s not something that you do. If you think you have to do, like for instance, do you feel like you have to do Marci, or does Marci do herself?

    Marci Shimoff: It depends on the day.

    Hale Dwoskin: Yes, that’s true, you’re right.

    Marci Shimoff: But yes when I am through...

    Hale Dwoskin: Not with the audience too but yes, but you don’t wake up in the morning and go “I hope I’m Marci today, I hope I’m Marci today.”

    Marci Shimoff: No.

    Hale Dwoskin: You don’t need to do that because your essence is what’s called Marci.

    Marci Shimoff: Yes.

    Hale Dwoskin: And the same thing is true about love, you don’t have to do love, you are love.

    Marci Shimoff: Well, what’s interesting is that, that is the first theme that I came up with from all the people I interviewed, number one is that love is who we are, it’s our essence, but I’d love you to comment on this because theme number two is the purpose of our life is to expand in love. And that wording is a little bit off because we already are love, there isn’t any expanding.

    Hale Dwoskin: Right exactly.

    Marci Shimoff: It would really be the purpose of life is to be more in touch with that experience of love or remove the barriers that prevent us from experiencing that love.

    Hale Dwoskin: Well, yes and no, I agree with both of the things you’ve said but at the same time the love that you are doesn’t require maintenance, doesn’t require doing this, so in my experience love is its own purpose and in fact often we get confused with purpose, we think purpose is somehow different than what’s actually already happening in this moment. But this moment is already whole, it’s already complete, it’s already enough as it is and we don’t need to add purpose to that, but on the other hand, if you’re going to talk about purpose and pretend that there is such a thing, there aren’t too many higher purposes than just uncovering and living the love that you are. You can’t really expand love because that’s all there is as you said.

    But uncovering it and living it which is the work of the Sedona Method and the work of probably a lot of the other people that you interviewed, is a great purpose to have if you want to have one.

    Marci Shimoff: Well, and you know I love the Sedona Method and it’s true a lot of your help in doing the Sedona Method that I survived writing a book... so I think that’s an exquisite practise method to really allow people to experience this, the state of who they are. So let me ask you this, because many times people brought up that at the end of our lives it’s been said people have had near death experiences, it’s been said that at the end of our life, there is really only one question that we’re asked and the questions is, how much did you love? So would you comment about that? Oh I think I opened a whole can of worms here didn’t I?

    Hale Dwoskin: No, again yes it’s a great teaching story, but in my experience it’s not your life or my life, it’s just life, and life doesn’t end. Life feeds on life for sure, when life ends, when apparent individual life ends and it feeds many other lives, so at the end of life to me that’s not possible cause life is never ending, it’s one continuum and the stories about what happens when this body mind dies? To me I can’t knock on wood, I can speak from my direct experience about that, otherwise we’ll be...

    Marci Shimoff: Yes, I’m glad about that.

    Hale Dwoskin: Yes, me too, otherwise we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

    Marci Shimoff: That’s right.

    Hale Dwoskin: But to get the, again if you’re going to have to have a measure, measuring by loving is a great measure because there’s not too much more worthy in life than loving, cause part of loving is compassion, when there’s compassion you’re not only loving but you’re often engaged in conscious action to support apparent others to support the planet. So if you’re going to make up a story about what happens when you die, that’s a great story.

    Marci Shimoff: A good story, well, so then the third theme that came up out of these three themes, the first was love is our essence, the second is that the purpose of life is love. And the third was that the heart is the portal to that experience of love and in so many ancient spiritual religious traditions, it’s been said that the heart is the sea to the soul, there’s so many different analogies about the diamond and the heart, the pearl and the heart and so many things like that and of course we’re not talking about necessarily blood pumping heart but our spiritual heart. So how does that relate to your work with the Sedona Method?

    Hale Dwoskin: Well in my experience the heart is the, again we’re both talking about the same thing, we’re not talking about the physical heart, but the heart which has nothing to do with the body is where everything comes from, knowing this comes from that, life energy, everything comes from the heart of awareness. Although it’s non-locational it’s everywhere present. And the heart of awareness is also a useful concept on a physical level because one of the things that happens when you let go, you lead more with your heart as opposed to your head and there’s more harmony between your heart and your head, and you actually start to live life more naturally because the heart actually is already leading.

    But we live in a society where we try to force the head to be in control, and it’s not designed for that, it really isn’t. The heart is the natural leader, I love what they discovered in heart math for instance, that even though our nervous system there’s more nerves controlling from the heart to controlling the brain and the brain controlling the heart. So and there’s an energetic essence to the heart that’s beyond mind, and that’s what Letting Go, the Sedona Method points to. So again I can see how the three things you discovered as you wrote the book really relate to what we’re doing but can you share just some of the other things or tips or tools or insights that people might find helpful that are in the book, some teasers so to speak.

    Marci Shimoff: I’m sorry?

    Hale Dwoskin: Some teasers so to speak.

    Marci Shimoff: Some teasers, well I have there 14 I call them keys to experiencing love for no reason they relate to the seven doorways that open us to love and I’ll quickly go through the seven doorways and just say what they are, the doorway of safety, it’s about being in the here and now and we cannot, when we don’t feel safe, we aren’t able to open up and experience love. There’s the doorway of vitality which has to do with the energy induced that we’re feeling in our life, the doorway of unconditional self love, the experiencing of loving ourselves not conditionally no matter what. There’s the doorway of openness which has to do with being able to give and receive equally. The doorway of communication which is about coming from compassion in your speaking and in your listening and in there we talk about some techniques including non violent communication and compassionate listening exercises.

    There’s the doorway of vision which is about seeing with the eyes of love and changing our beliefs, dissolving limiting thoughts, I would say Sedona Method has to do with that area of things, so that when those old beliefs are dropped, dissolved, those thought patterns dissolve then we naturally see with the eyes of love. And then finally there’s the doorway of oneness which is about connecting to the wholeness and the oneness again exactly what Sedona Method points us to the experience of.

    Hale Dwoskin: Sure, those are your great pointers, can you say each one individually again and I’ll give a little tip that people can use to experience it.

    Marci Shimoff: Great and then I’ll also give one little simple exercise to move people from the state of what I call love for good reason to the state of love for no reason.

    Hale Dwoskin: Perfect.

    Marci Shimoff: So shall I start with that?

    Hale Dwoskin: Oh yeah, why don’t you start with, well we just went through the seven doorways, so let’s complete on that and then we’ll end with your exercise.

    Marci Shimoff: Okay, so the doorway of safety, being in the here and now.

    Hale Dwoskin: So one of the things you can discover if you just examine what’s going on here and now is right here right now there are no problems, right here right now is safety. Even if you’re in [name] extreme circumstance, it’s only when we go in to the mind and we start comparing now to some then, the past or the future, that we feel unsafe. And also when we feel unsafe, it’s just a feeling, so no matter what’s going on around you if you’re willing to, you can release and let go and experience being at home in life and feel safe now and that safety of course when you feel safe, it’s easier to feel the love that you are. So what was number two?

    Marci Shimoff: Number two is the doorway of vitality, turning up the juice in life.

    Hale Dwoskin: Well vitality or aliveness is who you are, I mean you are life itself so one of the simple ways to turn up vitality is to start honouring the vital energy that’s flowing through every cell in your body right in this moment. You don’t actually have to pump it up, it’s already right here, right now. And now of course tools, there are many tools to help with that, I’m sure you have some in your book and one of my favourite actually for just building vitality is Qigong, I’ve been doing Qigong often, since I was a teenager, I actually started with Thai Chi and then I did the Qigong as got older and I’ve done it often on, I’m in a phase where I’m doing it again.

    So it’s also helpful to build your physical life force through external practises like that because they just make it easier to recognize the truth of who you are cause you’re not distracted by leaking energy everywhere.

    Marci Shimoff: Well and also in that particular doorway, the doorway of vitality, we also have the area of feeling your feelings because when we don’t then it cuts off our vitality and of course this is all about Sedona Method with welcoming your feelings, it’s completely about that.

    Hale Dwoskin: Yes completely, what was the next one?

    Marci Shimoff: The next one is the doorway of unconditional self love, loving yourself no matter what.

    Hale Dwoskin: Yes, actually there’s a quick thing I can tell people to do right now about that, in this moment, could you allow yourself to love yourself for no reason? If that sounds too general, could you give yourself, you know those little dropper bottles that herbs come in? Imagine giving yourself just one little drop of love and if you do that, you’ll discover that the dropper bottle is infinite and the love is infinite and you don’t have to change yourself in order to be lovable, you are already lovable exactly as you are and you can choose to love yourself exactly as you are. In fact if there are things about yourself you really don’t like, you can love yourself because you are that way.

    Marci Shimoff: That’s fabulous, what an opening, what a spaciousness when you do that, fantastic.

    Hale Dwoskin: And it’s true.

    Marci Shimoff: The next one is the doorway of openness and it has to do with being able to give and receive, being open to fully give and receive.

    Hale Dwoskin: Yes, I love that I mean again openness is what’s natural in life, it’s only us humans that resist, the fall doesn’t resist summer and vice versa. The inbound tides don’t resist the outbound tide, it’s only us humans that resist experiencing and it doesn’t matter to quote the Borg, “resistance is futile.” Life is simply going to happen and one of the things that really helps with that flow of being willing to give and receive love is to give without wanting anything back in return and to receive without feeling obligated.

    Marci Shimoff: Freedom.

    Hale Dwoskin: Yes.

    Marci Shimoff: That’s freedom, beautiful.

    Hale Dwoskin: So what was the last, the other one?

    Marci Shimoff: The next one? There’s three more, the doorway of communication which is about speaking and listening with compassion.

    Hale Dwoskin: Yes, I love that, I mean again when you allow yourself to speak from your heart and listen from your heart, magical things happen in relationship. Most of us are trying to be the life of the party or think we need to be interesting, but it’s much more powerful to be interested when you’re with your partner and you’re really interested in what they have to say, speaking to Katie about this, Katie Hendricks and the way she says it is “you’re curious” as people are speaking instead of just waiting for your turn to speak. If you’re curious about what they have to say, you’ll ask the right question and so just giving of yourself without wanting the person to give back and when you do receive from someone else, if you don’t turn it into a [bargain] if you don’t feel obligated, it just keeps the doorway open.

    Marci Shimoff: All of these point ultimately to the feeling of openness and freedom and expansion.

    Hale Dwoskin: Yes totally.

    Marci Shimoff: Yeah, so then there’s the doorway of vision, seeing with the eyes of love.

    Hale Dwoskin: I’m not going to say too much about that, you’re doing that anyway, even if you’re not realizing it.

    Marci Shimoff: Well it’s so interesting because when our hearts are open, when we’re feeling our hearts open, we naturally see things with so much more compassion.

    Hale Dwoskin: Oh totally.

    Marci Shimoff: I mean if you think about the times often when people have had the experience of falling in love and they’re at the grocery store and the person in front of them in line would normally be annoying to them because they were taking too much time, instead they just notice how sweet and kind that older woman is or you start to see just naturally when your heart is open, you start to see the beauty and magnificence in others very naturally. Let me just relate a quick story about the...

    Hale Dwoskin: Oh sure go for it.

    Marci Shimoff: The Dalai Lama, I had the great experience of being in a small group meeting with the Dalai Lama, and something he said struck me so profoundly, it was quite simple, he said “most people when they meet others, they’re looking at the secondary differences, they’re looking at what makes you different from me or what makes you similar to me but in our personalities.” He said “I don’t do that, when I meet people, I look at the primary essence that makes them human and makes me human, our primary sameness as just humans.” And he said “it doesn’t matter if I’m meeting with the head of state or with a homeless person in the street, I see the same thing, I see the essence.” I mean wow, that’s pretty cool yeah.

    Hale Dwoskin: That’s beautiful, yes I can’t add anything to it, take anything away that’s just beautiful, I love the Dalai Lama, he’s...

    Marci Shimoff: Great embodiment of this.

    Hale Dwoskin: Yes totally.

    Marci Shimoff: So in the final doorway is the doorway of oneness and it’s with feeling connected to the wholeness of life.

    Hale Dwoskin: Yes and again if you look, you’ll discover that there is only one, if that sense of separation, that sense of be separate from you doesn’t bear direct examination. If you look for that me that’s separate from you, you can’t find it cause it’s not there. There is already only one.

    Marci Shimoff: The mind can make it too.

    Hale Dwoskin: Yes but that’s only in appearance.

    Marci Shimoff: Right.

    Hale Dwoskin: The mind can make up all sorts of stories, doesn’t mean they’re true.

    Marci Shimoff: Well those are the seven doorways to this experience of unconditional love and...

    Hale Dwoskin: That’s wonderful and again you explore these in great depth in your book.

    Marci Shimoff: I do and shall I give this...

    Hale Dwoskin: Oh yes please.

    Marci Shimoff: Exercise of...

    Hale Dwoskin: Yes please do.

    Marci Shimoff: It’s a very simple exercise and if you’re driving, you probably won’t want to be doing it right now but you can remember it and do it later. But otherwise I just invite you to do this and first close your eyes and think of someone or something that you feel love towards. It can be a person, a pet, a specific place that just inspires in you that feeling of love. And what is it that you love about this person or your beloved pet? Often it’s usually a person or a pet that come to people’s mind and appreciate all the wonderful qualities that you love about that person or that thing, and for just a moment, let yourself savour the object of your love.

    Now I’d like you to ask yourself perhaps an unusual question that you may have ever considered. Where does this love from? What’s causing you to have that wonderful experience? And the vast majority of people answer that the love that they feel is directly caused by the object that they’re thinking about. And that’s how we experience love for good reason, we think “my love is based on this beloved person or pet.” But now I’d like you to try something a little different and that is to switch your focus from the beloved to the experience of love itself. Just put your attention on your heart and feel that same appreciation you were feeling but independent of your thoughts about the object of your love.

    So instead of thinking about the qualities of that person, let yourself really feel the love that you have inside, that’s independent of that experience and just for a moment be with that inner experience of love and you may feel a warmth in the centre of your chest, you may spontaneously find yourself smiling, you may feel a certain energy coursing through your body that’s more expanded and just be in that experience, and you can open up your eyes. That is the difference between a directed love and a love for no reason, in Love For No Reason, our love doesn’t depend on the object of our experience and it doesn’t mean we don’t feel that experience but it means we’re not looking for love from the experience, I like to use the analogy that most people are like love beggars.

    We think that love is a stream of energy that flows between two people, so we walk around with these little cups looking for our cups to be filled with love from a particular person or an experience. When what we’re missing is the fact that we are the ocean of love that we live in an ocean of love and we are that love, and when we experience that, we shift from becoming a love beggar to being a love philanthropist.

    Hale Dwoskin: Yeah I love that.

    Marci Shimoff: Where the love is just automatically overflowing from our beingness.

    Hale Dwoskin: Yes, that’s wonderful, I love that analogy, by the way the other problem with analogy which you might want to add...

    Marci Shimoff: Good.

    Hale Dwoskin: Is that the cup is a sieve.

    Marci Shimoff: Yes, good point I love, so we’re standing as love beggars with a little cup that has holes all through it.

    Hale Dwoskin: Exactly.

    Marci Shimoff: And it comes in but it goes out as quickly as it comes in, it never stays, great thank you for adding to my analogy Hale.

    Hale Dwoskin: That’s a great analogy I like it.

    Marci Shimoff: Well you are a love philanthropist because you know who you are, that’s the thing you know who you are, you know the essence of who you are and because of that you just automatically overflow in it and that’s why people want to be around, we want to be around people who are living more and more in that recognition and in that experience because it’s contagious. I mean Hale I love being around you, just sitting on the phone getting to talk to you is, reminds me of this truth and I think everyone right now who’s listening, there’s an experience that we’re not just talking about something that people understand, we’re talking about something that I imagine right now people are experiencing and it’s because I think of the nature of the conversation and because of who you are being Hale.

    Hale Dwoskin: Right but again I have to say I’m just a mirror.

    Marci Shimoff: Thank you.

    Hale Dwoskin: Right back at you.

    Marci Shimoff: Thank you.

    Hale Dwoskin: Everyone that we experience in life is just a mirror, so you can rail against the mirror, you can love the mirror but you still just looking at yourself.

    Marci Shimoff: Well I happen to like what I’m looking at when I look at the mirror of you.

    Hale Dwoskin: And the feeling is quite mutual. So anyway we kind of went over on the amount of time we wanted to but I think it’s wonderful it was a fabulous conversation. So I highly encourage if you haven’t already gotten a copy of Love For No Reason just click on the link below and you can get your own copy of Love For No Reason, it’s a great book. And Marci is a great person and great speaker, great friend and this was fun.

    Marci Shimoff: Fun for me too. Thanks.

    Hale Dwoskin: Thank you.

    [End of transcript]

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  • Sedona Training
    started a topic Hale Dwoskin Speaks with Marci Shimoff

    Hale Dwoskin Speaks with Marci Shimoff

    Fantastic Interview with Marci Shimoff

    Here is a great conversation that was done with Marci about Self Love ....Please post your comments below

    Marci Shimoff

    #1 New York Times Bestselling Author

    LOVE FOR NO REASON: 7 Steps to Living a Life of Unconditional Love
    HAPPY FOR NO REASON: 7 Steps to Being Happy from the Inside Out
    Chicken Soup for the Woman's Soul 1 & 2
    Chicken Soup for the Mother's Soul 1, 2 & 3
    Chicken Soup for the Single's Soul

    Marci Shimoff is a #1 NY Times bestselling author, a celebrated transformational leader, and one of the nation's leading experts on happiness, success, and unconditional love. She is the author of the runaway bestsellers Love for No Reason and Happy for No Reason, which offer revolutionary approaches to experiencing deep and lasting love and happiness. These books soared to the top of many national bestseller lists including The New York Times, Amazon, and the Wall Street Journal and have been translated into 31 languages.

    Who Is Hale Dwoskin

    HALE DWOSKIN is the author of the New York Times Best Seller,
    The Sedona Method: Your Key to Lasting Happiness, Success, Peace and Emotional Well-being. He is featured in the new film Letting Go: Transform Your Life - Transform the World. Hale is one of the 24 teachers from the movie The Secret and a founding member of the Transformational Leadership Council. Contributor to the Huffington Post.

    He is the CEO and Director of Training of Sedona Training Associates, an organization headquartered in Sedona, Arizona. He co-founded the company in 1996 to teach courses based on the emotional releasing techniques originated by his mentor, Lester Levenson. Hale Dwoskin is an international speaker and featured faculty member at Esalen and the Omega Institute. For over a quarter century, he has regularly been teaching The Sedona Method to individuals and corporations throughout the United States and the United Kingdom, and leading facilitator trainings and advanced retreats since the early 1990s. He is also the co-author with Lester Levenson of
    Happiness Is Free: And Its Easier than You Think (a five-book series).

    Hale Dwoskin Website


    Did you know you can now learn the Sedona Method in 2 Hours with the Sedona Method Quick Study Course... check it out here
    Last edited by Sedona Training; 07-15-2011, 01:53 PM.